>> all right. >> back to you. >> we have to go. thanks, andy. kailey. bill shultz. always a pleasure. terry shepherd, always a joy. that does it for me. you know who i am. >> nuclear energy who needs it anyway? you noi how they get gas these days? they blow stuff up below ground. >> the intense pressure breaks it into rock and frees up the gas. >> what does that do to your water supply? a new movie suggests it does bad things. what should america do for energy? go nuclear? >> i think it's safe.
>> i think it's better than buying oil. >> i hear the oil companies rip us off. ? >> i have been telling you the oil companies are rigged. the markets are rigged. >> i feel they are raping the country. >> if oil and gas and nuclear is the problem should the government make us go green? >> i believe they should. >> they should tax bad energy and not good energy? do we have enough of it to keep the lights on? that's our show, tonight. >> gasoline prices are up close to 4 bucks a gallon.
the president said he knows why. >> there's enough oil out there for world demand. the problem is that oil is sold on these world markets and speculators and people make various bets and that spikes up prices. >> it is not just supply and demand. they vet speculators. vet. that's why prices are too high. people on the street even people who told us government should generally leave the private sector alone also told us they believe speculation is the problem. >> they should stop the speculation of oil and gas. >> i feel they are raping the country. >> so the president told the justice department investigate the oil speculators. that's a good idea. i argued with him about it earlier today. >> bill thank you for coming on
the show even though i am going to argue with you today. the oil markets are rigged? >> i am a simple man you have known me for a long time. you wouldn't dispout put i am a reasonable man. they sit there they are hunchbacks they sit over there bid the price of oil up they buy and sell. never put up any muvenlt they can do whatever -- >> they put up a fraction of money. >> nothing like you and i would have to put up for spot. the president says it's not supply and demand's manipulation. >> ef tal i have talked to evere expert they say there's plenty of oil in this world. >> they have to put up 50 percent of what they speculate. >> which would strongly -- they could lose a lot of money. then i think the federal
government should tell the oil companies you have to explain why you are charging what you are charges and why you are all charging the same. >> it is not supply and demand it's fix. >> it is rigged. there is a difference. it's rigged. they know how to play the game they do it within the letter of the law. it's definitely rigged. i think you are wrong, but thank you. >> if i am wrong you present me the evidence i will admit i am wrong. >> we will get to that. if you bi first this book with sub title about the people who hijack the oil markets conclude o'reilly is basically right hijack it that deserves ominous music. goodman joins us with john
beudrouix. >> hijack the oil market? >> when you close the door let frayed traders do whatever they want this is what happens. >> what happens? prices fluctuate more. >> they can have control over prices a very small group. this small group of people were often inebriated or high that's when we saw the prices go up in july of 2008. >> if they were high i bet they lost a lot of money. >> you would think, right? a lot of times they take a bigger bet and you can make more money if you shall going to do both. what you and the people on the street are saying because of this wildness pryingss are higher. >> there is a lot more opportunity to push prices up also down but generally make mer
money when they are high. most people agree with her is the impression i get the fix is in. >> most people are wrong in that case including riley. >> i have such an unusual audience. >> by the way you say george mason learning this i may quit i may become an oil trader if all of the fellow en1988 toneeb -- enneeb brated. >> speculation evens prices out over time. you can't make money speculating if you don't get it right. what speculators do is take supplies where where they are vel tively swears. that tosses prices to even out over time. if you get it done you lose a lot of money. >> sound good.
>> i think he is drawing a picture of what ideally speculation is supposed to do. why do prices keep rising? >> the u.s. has inventories every week. there are hisz cal averages. >> yet prices keep going up. that's an interesting situation why prices keep going up. >> in addition to that we have three times more speculation than we did. i prefer to have fewer middle men myself. >> that's what speculators do.
>> you are not aware they take profits? >> the supplies of oil in the future are lower prices rise they sell to the higher price and they profit. if they are wrong they lose. >> bill o'reilly is saying they at low cost if they are wrong they have to suck up the entire losses it's not as if they could speculate and not put their assets at stake. if they get it wrong they lose and they lose big time. you can't put down a small margin. if i am betting i shouldn't have to put down almost nothing and take out a billion dollar trade. >> if the future markets are a
problem why don't we ban the speculation? >> you don't want to ban speculation. if i am an oil driller and i am going to drill a well that takes ten years i want to know going into it i am going to get a certain amount per barrel. i need to know i can finances that giant project. >> even you don't want to ban speculation. some people do, you know, and the government has banned speculation before. our protectors in congress once said speculative activity causes severe and unwarranted fluctuations in the price. send an agriculture committee senators were upset about the rising price of onions. so they completely banned speculation on onion prices. >> and you still can't trade them. >> no futures market for onions. what do you think happened? here's what happened. look at this grass. prices became more volatile
after the ban. this year the price of onions rose more than the price of gasoline. so i think some people just don't get futures markets. they really help. once congress does something stupid it stays stunned stupidly and onions cost more because of that. i would like to say everyone complains about the oil companies making windfall prophets. this graph compares oil company prophets on each gallon of gas to the governments cut on each gallon $0.07 to the oil companies $0.48 to the states that's taxes. >> boo. >> good thing to remember. i will give you guides the last worthed. >> speculators are the modern day witches. in the past when things happened they blamed witches. now when things happen they
don't like they blame speculators. they are shady no one even knows it no one goes around saying speculate tore. that is what happened. it is politically inconvenient and it's just not right. >> on that note thank you john and lia. next they say it's cheap, clean, renewable. wind enerenergy. but our supporteders are really just blowing hot air? hi, anne. how are you doing? hi, evelyn. i know it's been a difficult time since your mom passed away. yeah. i miss her a lot, but i'm okay. wow. that was fast. this is the check i've been waiting for. mom had a guaranteed acceptance life insurance policy through the colonial penn program, and this will really help with the cost of her final expenses.
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>> i have been promoting and boosting clean energy. it is absolutely necessary for our future. it is nice to be next to cool products. >> the cool products were wind turbines. our government gives billions in subsidies to wind energy companies because it's energy from the wind. it is clean it's print i feel, it's green energy. isn't that wonderful? who could have possessed that? lots of people it turns out tim riley for example.
he meds a group of saved prospect. he wants to install wind turbines. what's your problem? you don't like green energy? >> we like green energy and prospect. we support green energy and we think there's a lot of alternatives. we do not support green energy when it is cited inappropriately. >> cited inappropriately meaning? >> meaning the site location chosen is in the middle of a residential area. >> so what it is so beautiful it reduces greenhouse gasses. >> the wind doesn't blow all of the time the wind blows in you are lucky in a windy place maybe 30 percent of the time. what they are going to go to then is back up systems and what -- >> which means coal or gas. >> that's correct. >> really the net change carbon
footprint what are you gaining? >> paul, i will give you a chance. >> currently america consumes 18 million barrels of oil every day that is over 800 gallons of oil a day. it is not sustainable. we have to move toward renewable energy and wind is certainly part of the solution. >> everybody likes the idea of the wind but i think what he is saying is the big turbines are noisy. b and e energy is -- not in my backyard. the kennedy family big environmentalists. don't put it in my property in hianus. >> there are those in certain groups of people. everybody opposes everything in this country. it is unfortunate when it is something positive for the community.
there are wind turbines being built throughout new england in schools and churches and in new developments in major cities. everybody that we have talked to, they are very optimistic about it and positive about it. it is viewed as a very good thing. >> i am sure they are optimistic. once they go in i am sure people complain. >> you will hear from the wind industry pre-construction. it will sounds like a refrigerator. after they go up and operational it's a jet sound that never goes away. it's sneakers clunking in a dry ar it's shadow flicker which is the roizing sun going to through the fladz. >> we have a picture we can put up. that only happens at a certain time when the sun is right at that point. >> it could be in the somer time it could be for an hour or more. >> i should say some people call wind ter bins squeeze a bins k
birds. it flies by and gets whacked. they are going to dill birds make noise and they are only going to work when there's wind which is most of the time not. >> that is not exactly true. the two turbines we are proposing to install will power 25 percent of the demand of the entire town on average over the course of the year. as for birds and bats and the effects that mr. riley -- >> they kill bats, too. >> some. but very few. the impacts are minimal and the predicted number of birds that the turbines will kill are 1-2 birds per turbine, per year. that's a very small number. >> cats kill many more birds. >> many more birds. millions more. >> i don't think of you as a real businessman.
do you propose this business which works only because you get subsidies from the government from us taxpayers you have to pay. >> boo. >> what about that? >> i am with you on that. i am a fiscal conservative. i believe in small government. the first thing you have to look at it every energy sector that is subsidies. >> yeah, but why are we hearing that for a while. every energy but wind and solar if you look at this list gets 100 times what oil and natural gas gegets. >> that is a recent figure. if you look at it over the last 50 years we have subsidized and encouraged fossil fuels and nuclear significantly more than renewable energy. i think that it is personally appropriate to provide -- to use some of the federal our tax dollars for productive matters,
and certainly wind energy provideling the proper incentives. >> the market wouldn't do it without a subsidy 100 times bigger than no sub de. >> any green job created for $475,000 for brain job. i have a background in business. >> i haven't heard that one. is that true? does it make it worth that? >> i haven't heard it. >> haven't we learned lessons from europe? >> no, never learned any lessons 2-3 percent of their energy generation. >> 4.9 percent in the united states. >> after 30 years we haven't learned. we have a $14.3 trillion debt.
that doesn't include social security unfunded liabilities medicare and medicaid. $40,000 for every man, woman and child in america. we are spending good money after bad. it's not efficient hasn't gotten to that point yet. >> thank you very much tim riley paul corie. next nuclear power from one piece of uranium you can get as much energy as pour four of his windmills. when there is wind. and getting energy from uranium is much more ee fish shents than most anything. wind power or solar power certainly. but it's uranium. it's nuclear. we saw what happened in japan. shouldn't we be scared or should we do what france did tell the scare mongers to shut up and build more nuclear plants.ry thw
power. it is the only source of energy that could come close to producing coil, oil and gas. it is nuclear. nuclear is scary as the japan earthquake remind us. >> it is getting worse by the hour. >> fear a meltdown one of the nuclear reactors may be underway. >> it has the potential to be more threatening man-made disaster. >> what's he talking about? he is a friend of mine we are partners in a restaurant together. he is just wrong about this. in japan 18,000 people died in the natural disasters. the nuclear plant killed no one. they feared they would die within weeks for the raidcation exposure but they vvenlt. after the chernobyl explosion we were told there would be thousands of cancer deaths there haven't been.
united nations say there was some increase in thyroid cancer which is treatable. no increase in incidents of cancers like lung cancer or leukemia. nothing anywhere close to the thousands killed by the earthquake in japan. our foolish media from the natural disasters 18,000 people from the threat of the nuclear plants. japan announced it was scrapping its plans for more nuclear power. does it mean we have to find other ways to keep the light on? here to join us is author of "power hungry the myths of energy and the real fuels of the future. >> clearly nuclear has to be part of the answer. i am adamantly pro nuclear even in spite of what happens in fukushima it was a serious accident.
you have 18,000 people dead they believe maybe more. 10 billion potentially in damages. we hear very little in my view from the media about the extent of that disaster. we have had this incredible focus on the nuclear accident. >> we have to get good at nuclear. >> we won't always be good at nuclear. the a meltdown the china syndrome mass disaster will happen. >> sure. we have heard this for decades. if you are anti carbon dioxide you love darkness. the reality is today the world needs electricity and it needs a lot of it we have over a billion people living without electricity. it is growing dramatically 80 percent in the next 20-years. >> we have coal, oil, natural
gas you could do it that way. >> perhaps, but i don't think we have enough of those resourc re if we did we have to deal with the externalitiesexternalities> warming is a problem. >> if it is a problem. you have the coal ash, you have mining deaths from coal mining. the thing that makes nuclear so compelling is incredible power density. you cannot approach anything n other energy course approaches nuclear when it comes to power density. here in new york indian point. >> a nuclear plant just north of here. >> two reactors produced 2100 mega watts of power f. you wanted to pro -- use wind turbines to produce that. >> your governor said we need to close indian point. >> he's the brother of the friend of mine who is in the restaurant. >> what was the name of that restaurant? >> no plugs.
>> if you wanted to produce 2100 mega watts of capacity not dispatchable 2 is hundred mega watts it's 800 square miles to replace indian point which covers 200 acres. that's why nuclear is so compelling. >> it is not compelling to most americans. the media is so scared of the radiation. let's put the risk of radiation in perspective. nuclear radiation is measured in miley severts. it is the worst day in tokyo since the accident. 10 miliseverts is the average cat scan. we are exposed to this radiation all of the time. my father when evidences a kid his father was one of the first dentists to use dental x-rays. my father would hold the plates.
he lived to age 92 and died of something else. >> that's the irrationality of the fear of radiation. we hear about radiation poisoning all of the time. tens of thousands have it every year it's called sunburn. radiation is invisible we can't see it. they don't have away to understand that. >> it is too flip to say nuclear accidents tanning lotion. >> sure. the reality is for all of the devastation in fukushima there were three workers killed in the plant. none have been killed by radiation. here in america 20 percent of our electricity comes nuclear it's on the order of 10-15 percent. this is an ir replaceable part. we cannot do without it. >> this is what bugs me about
this. it gets subsidies, too. the company said we are not going to build them unless president obama you guarantee us a loan. >> shouldn't be guaranteeing private business stuff. >> on this issue i believe the value of electricity to society is so great. the value of cheap abundant reliable electricity is so great. you have to have government tal involvement. let me finish. you have to have governmental involvement to deal with the waist issue. you will have someone involved in the waegs management. >> kriers a small government tal voment. >> we will give our audien audi
(applause) >> i just learned i am going to save money. my apartment building is changeing from heating oil number 6 which is a much cleaner and cheaper fuel natural gas. it wasn't always cheaper than oil but it is cheaper now. energy companies found ways to get more natural gas out of the ground. they have pulled so much out that over the past three years natural gas prices dropped 70 percent. also you notices you don't hear all of the panicky politician
whining about we are running out of energy we are going to freeze in the dark. that's because using this technique america won't run out of natural gas for 100 years or more. so yi yipee. plentiful and cheaper except you know how they get it out of the ground? they use chemicals to blow up rock called froking high dollic. >> they blast water and chemicals # thousand feet into the ground. it is like a mini earthquake. the intense pressure breaks apart the rock and frees up the gas. >> the movie suggests the fraccing contaminates our water supply with chemicals. in the movie some homeowners set their tap water on fire. >> whoa. jesus christ.
>> that got my attention when i saw it. i have seen michael moore movies and a lot of these environmental documentaries i thought they were nonsense but gas land is more convincing. i invited the filmmaker to join us today. we invited the big environmental groups that were opposed to this could come here they said no, too. john hangar former director of pennsylvania department of environmental protection he appeared in the film. we are joined by matthew briete. >> it is another example of if you tell a lie repeat it often enough people really start to believe it. wait a second they use all of these chemicals some of which are totally poisonous. they put them in the ground and cause explosions and the
chemicals they talk about are things you find in your household. are you afraid of guargum. you find it in your ice cream. that is one of the prominent items that goes into that. >> it is below the water table? >> thousands of feet. >> the water table is above where they frac. >> absolutely. they are again the most documented cases of this contaminated ground water. >> they go up to bring the gas these people's tap water did catch fire. there are lots of bio genic meaning naturally causing effects that are occurring across pennsylvania in areas where we are drilling. it is no surprise. 40 percent of the wells in pennsylvania have some sort of
naturally occurring methane gas and other types of things. >> they came from colorado where investigators from colorado checked that out and they found fraccing had nothing to do with it. >> nothing to do with it. you started a big environmental group. >> the bureaucrats don't care enough to stop this evil doing. >> absolutely. the movie is wrong on the facts it doesn't show the real alternative choices. gas has some impacts. there are more dirty positive ill fuels. they are consumed in a manner that is cleaner than coal. i want to go back to something cleaner than matt said. that picture of the flame there
are two possible causes. one is a natural cause the second is gas can migrate and has migrated in private water wells. the companies responsible drilling companies agree that can happen. there are two possible causes. >> we need more regulation and make sure the gas companies don't do that? >> this is an industrial process it needs to be properly regulated. the gas migration issue is a real one. >> it does not combat from bats and people's water wells. we don't have chemicals we have had gas move from poorly done gas drilling through the ground and reach people's water wells. there is a need for water wells here. >> this is where the gas industry has exceeded in standards the government laid out and is moran willing to make
sure our drinking water is safe. >> you sound like a shill. >> are they paying you? >> absolutely not. they concede the states are found that fires aren't caused by this. he argued governments are on the take or you are not using good science. >> look, josh fox has a mission. he's trying to shut down the gas drilling industry. my mission was -- >> they are kind of winning. my state there's this big field they won't let them develop it. >> i think new york is right now importing a lot of gas from around the country including from pennsylvania. you john if you live in new york are using it. i am glad you are using it as opposed to the oil. it is cleeping up the air in new york by doing that. >> one clever opponent of natural gas and fraccing are around new york city people have been seeing this sign on drinking fountains. this water is most likely safe.
do you have any concerns about contamination due to hydraulic fastening expose water to flames. it is in the department of environment. >> that is really an example of scare monitoring intense monitoring of your drinking water. if there's any problem with your drinking water we run to the media to inform the public there's bacteria in the water and there's some problem. >> those are pretty rare. >> we have been doing hydraulics it's technical advances that allow us to get deeper into the harder shale gas. this has been a proven safe way of not con dtaminating the weather. thank you. later i will give you my take on what we should do to keep the lights on.
for dentists, the choice is clear. fact is, more dental professionals brush with an oral-b tooush an any other brush. trust the brush more dentists and gienists use, oral-b. >> now, the questions or comments oil speculation is just fine. robert price says we should have more nuclear power. matt brie et who says natural
gas is great even if you frack to get it. who is first? yes, you, sir. >> you give well research defense nuclear energy then at the end you said that we needed the federal government to be responsible for the waste. isn't it the one that set off nuclear bombs putting countless notice of radiation in the atmosphere. why should we trust them over private industry? oo is that a speech or a question? >> both. >> we have to have cooperation because nuclear is too important and we have risks associated with it. >> aren't governments bigger pollute tors than private industry? >> i think there's data the
military basis and so forth. even the libertarians most argue when it comes to pollution there's no market incentive to behave well. you need market to say you can't dump the radioactive waste in the street. >> they ruled they need to have deep intervention. >> as governments mature and democracies mature we have less pollution. it's in totalitarian government. governments act totally ir responsibly. we need strong democracies and strong accounting. >> government's role is to protect life, liberty and property. when it comes to nuclear what we need to do is get the government out of the subsidy business whether it's nuclear, wind or solar and allow the free market to compete to provide us the best energy source. that's what we need. >> we do but we are not holding our breath. >> we are in favor of
speculation. we have hard time accounting for the fact after the crash of 08 we have $50 a barrel does that really mean we only have half of the supply or has demand really doubled? it seems badly out of whack. how do you account for that? >> i don't think it's difficult to account for at all. you have all of the oil turmoi in the middle east. trying to push the green agenda. china and india continue to grow. the fact that oil prices have risen so much from the bottom of the trough of a deep re recessi to where they are now i don't find it to be mysterious at all. >> thanks to the fed printing money. >> that is an incredibly important point. as the value of the dollar falls the price of the dollar goes up. >> everybody hates the speculators when the price goes
up. >> why didn't the president call for an investigation when the price fell $10 last week. there have been over the last two or three decades there have been 30 investigations 30 investigations of price manipulations in the oil markets they have not found one case that they have proven any price manipulation in the gasoline and crude oil markets. >> i do think that drilling in the u.s. and in alberta you think that would help ease the pressure on speculators. >> even though they might not get the physical oil from the places for another decade or decade and a half it would cause the price to decline. speculators would realize in the future the supplies of oil would in fact be higher than anticipated them being. that would drive the price down today. it would be a good thing and cause the price to fall.
jambalaya. >> solar wind, geothermal they are just insignificant. so far they can provide no more than a tiny amount of the energy we need. so what if global warming is a real threat? what if we need to use less coal, oil or natural gas? what then? nuclear. it doesn't admit greenhouse gasses. it scares people to death. japan just this week announced we are cancelling our plans to build nuclear plants. other countries did the same and america isn't easy to rely on the nuclear power. melt down problem, terrorism worry and problems of disposing of fuel rods. no wonder people say i don't want nuclear plants anywhere near me. the risk is too high. what is acceptable risk?
let's assume i am agreedy businessman and i want to introduce a new fuel. you are the safety regulator you and you and you get to decide if i should be allowed to put customers at risk. let's say my new fuel is cheaper than oil. it reduces dependence on opec also good. emits greenhouse gas but not as much as oil. all of that is good but the problem with my fuel unlike oil which is flammable my new fuel is so flammable it is explosive. it is also invisible odorless and deadly poisonous i want to pump it in your house. you are my regulator will you approve this fuel? who would approve it new fuel? a couple lunatics in here. what if i promise you it will kill 5 americans a year. who would approve it then? >> yeah, i am just not sure if it's going to cost one human
life it is morally defensible to use. >> at home what kind of stove do you have? >> gas. >> gas. those of you who didn't want this fuel. how many of you have gas stoves? that's the fuel i am talking about natural gas. it is not new. we already use it in will ha hae country. half of the country has gas stoves. you don't want to approve a fuel that most of you have. it is highly explosive invisible poison and odorless. it kills not 5 americans every year but more than 50 every year. people blow themselves up. we accept it because it was introduced before we got petrified about risk. we accept coal even though mining and chipping it is nasty it's filthy and kills lots of people. now we are terrified of nuclear energy. chernobyl the worst nuclear disaster ever killed 30 people.
japan's nuclear plant killed no one. it's not to say that radiation from those disasters won't eventually kill more people, some people. coal and natural gas kill people every year. of course now the banana people are scared of natural gas, too. because of the fracking that gets it out of the ground. i call them the bauma banana pe used to be nimbi not in my backyard now i think it's banana. build absolutely nothing ne anything near anybody. >> we are so afraid of risks. today we are so scared of technologies than ever before this history. fracking does involve using nasty chemicals that can cause problems. they have been managing that using all the chemicals and
technologies for decades now. what happened? they haven't shortened our lives. we live longer than ever. it is the very technology we now fear. all energy involves risk. that's part of life. we should let the free market sort it out. if we let the most fearful people decide for all of us then the life will go out. that's our show.